Zeno Rogue
3 min readApr 2, 2022

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Articles like this are a source of endless confused people who come to roguelike communities and ask about various platformers and first-person shooters, greatly worsening the quality of discussions there.

Roguelike is a genre defined primarily by its gameplay, just like "platformer" or "first-person shooter". If you want a game where you make tons of interesting, complex tactical decisions, roguelikes are the best, other games rarely come close. Many roguelikes have some form of metaprogression (especially the newer ones, but even in NetHack which defined the genre you can find items left behind by your previous dead characters), and in quite a lot of them, permadeath is a feature for hardcore players. I have played roguelikes for a few years before starting to adhere to permadeath.

Spelunky was a very innovative game featuring short runs and permadeath, and it cited roguelikes as its inspiration, but unfortunately people did not know what roguelikes were, so they started to refer to games like Spelunky as "roguelikes". It makes as much sense as if somebody created a very popular team-based FPS where you need to kill the leader of enemy team to survive, and they cited Chess as their influence, and then people would start to come to Chess tournaments and try to play this FPS with Garry Kasparov and Magnus Carlsen. People who were more knowledgeable used other terms like "roguelike-like" and "roguelite".

People who try to sell games would rather pretend that roguelikes do not exist (the best ones are free and last for months), so they say things like that roguelikes are some ancient games where you keep nothing after you die :(

> I think over the course of time you’ll come to agree with me -- there are simply too many games that are obviously some kind of Roguelike/lite, but do not adhere to things like turn-based, grid-based, etc.

Suppose somebody said Checkers was a platformer because it is a game where you jump, and you said "no, it is not a platformer because it is turn-based". But what you really mean here is that Checkers is a totally different kind of game (and turn-based is just the first thing that came into your mind, maybe a turn-based platformer could actually work). Likewise, roguelike fans saying "X is not a roguelike because it is turn-based" sound like purists but what they really mean is that it is a different kind of game. It is obvious to people who have played roguelikes, but unconvincing to those who have not.

The overwhelming majority of people who have played roguelikes agree with what I have written above (maybe not with all the details). So do the history articles you have cited, which are all about roguelikes, some mention "roguelike-likes". Basically, there is no other name for this genre of gameplay; permadeath is cool only if you love the gameplay and want to master it.

So I suppose you have never played a roguelike? Doom the Roguelike is a great introduction as it shows DOOM but with its genre changed from first-person shooter to roguelike, and another great suggestion is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, a very complex game with a modern feel (when media mention roguelikes they typically mention only Rogue which is a very simple game or NetHack/Angband which are very dated).

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Zeno Rogue
Zeno Rogue

Written by Zeno Rogue

Mathematics, game development, art, roguelikes, hyperbolic geometry. Sometimes all at once.

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